@ghost_bird Tell that to the marginalized people arming up in response to nazi violence. No, it just mutates the shape of the violence. In the Uk they still have mass violence, just not mass shootings. Why not address the root cause and eliminate the violence altogether? Sounds like the better solution instead of just a haphazard patch.

@Laurelai Tell them that if the Nazis didn’t have guns they’d be safer? Though, again, I agree racist police aren’t going to take the Nazis guns away unless they’re forced to.
More importantly, though, I’m not sure why this is one thing or another? Politicians aren’t going to legislate away toxic masculinity but they could pass gun laws.

@ghost_bird Police wont take nazi guns away because the police tend to also be nazis. And nazis wont obey gun control laws. They wont. They are nazis. They dont play by rules. They laugh in your face while you disarm yourself then kill you in your sleep.

@Laurelai I’m in the UK, so this is all pretty abstract to me - our Nazis are more likely to beat people to death or (occasionally) blow them up. But gun control here has been a kind of virtuous circle - mass shootings created revulsion for gun violence, which drove gun control laws, which made gun violence less frequent and thus more shocking and so on. But we started from a position of fewer guns in the first place.

@ghost_bird You just kinda proved my point. nazis are killing people with fists and bombs instead of guns. Nazis are still killing people. The violence just mutated. It didnt go away. And arent bombs more deadly than a gun???

@Laurelai They’re killing fewer people because their weapons aren’t as efficient. Bombs seem like an exception, but home-made bombs are hard to make, easy to detect, and prone to failure - which is why they’re not that common in the States, either.
And we do have much less mass violence here, while having no less toxic masculinity.

@ghost_bird You would have *even less* if you addressed the root cause. Literally this is all to avoid addressing toxic masculinity.

@ghost_bird And like arent yall debating banning knives because of the stabbings? If yall keep this up everyone will be in bubble wrap and toxic masculinity will still get ignored lol

@Laurelai I also notice we’re kind of slipping back and forth between talking about mass violence and Nazis with guns. Guns will deter Nazi militias but they don’t help with mass shootings or other forms of suicide attack.

@ghost_bird No what will deter mass shootings is addressing toxic masculinity. Ever notice its not women gun owners going on shooting sprees most of the time?

@Laurelai Like I said, I basically agree. I just think gun control will help, is easier to enact, and doesn’t stop us trying to fix toxic masculinity at the same time. But I’m not in the States and if you’re arguing that particular circumstances over there make gun control impossible then I’m sympathetic.

@ghost_bird It actually does because once you enact it the momentum for change is lost. often permanently. Thats why your debating banning knives over there instead of still working on the root problem. There will always be something else to blame but the cause, thats how capitalist democracies work.

@Laurelai I’m not sure there is any momentum for dealing with toxic masculinity outside of radical circles, though? So I’m personally OK with “toxic masculinity means we shouldn’t let men have guns”. But as I said, you know the situation over there better than I do.

@ghost_bird Over here getting rid of guns would require amending the constitution. Thats never going to happen. It is a waste of time to try it and if you managed to do it you would cause an armed rebellion. Nobody here wants another civil war.

@Laurelai Cynically, the only time in American history I know of that there was a consensus for gun control was when the Black Panthers started arming up. So maybe getting more guns into the hands of marginalised people will help after all...

@ghost_bird @Laurelai this is accurate

@Laurelai (Although if we’re talking about homicide deaths per capita rather than mass violence I could argue for inequality and/or systematic racism as root causes as well.)

@ghost_bird Humans killing other humans has happened since the dawn of humans. Im specifically speaking fo mass violence. Though modern murder yes also has a racialized and class element to it.